Posts by Doubting Bro

23

What % of your Congregation is Pioneering in April?

by Open mind in

our family is part of the 32% unappreciative spiritual loser class.

not regular or auxiliary.. .

our congo has 51% aux pioneering in april.. .

Doubting Bro

YNOT!!! - missed you but glad you're still checking in.

Yeah, ours is around 50% (including the regulars). They've posted a list with the elders and MS names in a different colored font. They actually got 100% participation from the 7 elders and 7 ms which I was shocked to see. Some of those elders have not aux pioneered in at least the 10+ years that I've known them and I think there are one or two that maybe never did. The CO is coming this month which I'm sure put extra pressure on them to do so.

Like OM, I'm in the spiritual loser class (and proud of it).

Sir82 makes a great point about the Memorial invite "work". Those tract campaigns are the easiest FS (other than driving around doing RVs) that your average dub will get.

I think the response was enough to make it an annual event. However, I'll bet the ratios are slightly lower next year as the novelty wears off.

9

Did anyone watch the series finale of Big Love?

by jamiebowers in

omg, i watched it twice in a row and then watched the wrap-up on hbo.com .

i'm devastated!.

Doubting Bro

I thought it was a pretty good ending. I also thought that maybe Bill would take over Juniper Creek while Albert was in jail or maybe start his own compound. The scene when he was giving the Easter sermon was a bit weird especially with another flash of Joseph Smith's wife. I guess the whole "women are just around to serve men" thinking finally was turning around. I thought it was interesting that Barb couldn't get baptized in the Reformed LDS church and I even said as she was stepping into the baptismal pool that she wouldn't do it. What I really thought was interesting is that her rejection of his church hurt him more than anything else. After all they've been through, it was a stupid religion that was going to tear them apart. Sound familiar?

At the end of the day, Barb still loved Bill and she had actually grown to love her sister wives as well. Her holding Nikki in the shelter was a moving scene.

Bill had so many people gunning for him that it was a matter of time before he would actually get hurt. The ending was probably best for everyone. The fact that he accepted Barb's priesthood I thought was significant.

The last scene tied up everything pretty well. Ben & Heather get married. Sarah and her family are again part of the clan. Barb has emerged as the spiritual leader and quite frankly she's much better at it than Bill was. Margie cut her hair which seems like a real statement (like a JW growing a beard).

It was a really good series and I'm glad it ended when it did. It was starting to get too crazy.

Interestingly I learned a lot more about the regular LDS and realize how close their structure and cult like ways are similar to JWs. Plus it allowed me to discuss cult tendancies with my wife without the emotion of talking about JWs. Crap, now I need another cult show to watch!!!!

12

So presumptuous that they don't realize they're condemned by their own literature.

by miseryloveselders in

jw
friends

this is from the come be my follower publication.

pages 187-189. i highlighted what i found to be ironic.. 14. on the other hand, jesus must be very happy to look down from heaven and see that millions of people are fulfilling the disciple-making commission that he gave his followers before leaving the earth.

(matthew 28:19, 20) what a privilege it is to contribute to the joy of the messianic king!

Doubting Bro

It doesn't happen that often but I was so close to actually standing up and screaming "you F***ing hypocrites!!!" Folks were going on and on about how the oral law was so nitpicky and how you couldn't eat anything with vinager on the sabboth if you had a sore in your mouth because it was considered practicing medicine or some such nonsense. Yeah, and the WT Talmud isn't anything like that (can't have a beard, discouraging social media, can't watch R rated movies, can't use the YMCA, the blood fraction rulings, etc).

I think the WTS is actually jealous of the Pharisee's position. After all, they had a fair amount of secular power in Jesus day, to the point where they could get people killed. Can you imagine if the local elders or if the GB had that kind of secular influence today? It would make the Taliban look like a bunch of bleeding liberals!!!

Oh, and the bashing of church run charities was also classic. Folks going on and on about how the churches misuse their tax exception and make token attempts at charity. I'm against giving religion a charitable exemption anyway, but even if I could rework the tax code, I would make sure to exclude funds churches spend on soup kitchens and other real charitable activities. Teaching others your beliefs doesn't count in my book. Which means under my ideas, cults like the WTS and Scientology would likely pay taxes and almost all of their profits with very little deductions.

Brazen is a good word to describe that last chapter.

61

Wow, This is Getting Tougher!

by Franklin Massey in

jw
friends

i'm having a really hard time giving my meeting parts.

i had a service meeting part this week and i could hardly get through it.

i am no longer convinced of some of the things jws teach and so i try to either eliminate those things from my parts, or reword them so that i'm not speaking about that which i do not personally believe.

Doubting Bro

FM,

I understand exactly what you're going through. I was in the same position for awhile. Pirata's advice was pretty much how I handled it. I also played word games as Miz does and no one seemed to notice. I'm still on the TMS and now only give talks about 3 times a year as opposed to one part a week when I was an elder. Even then, I had a part from the Reasoning book about whether JWs think they have the true religion. So, I spoke in the third person because quite frankly, they do believe they are the true religion. I just couldn't say we because I most certainly do not think that way (anymore).

Prayers were easier for me. I really tried to just focus "we appreciate your Word" as opposed "we appreciate your organization". I'd pray for everyone in the congregation to be strengthened which I meant, just not strengthened to continue doing the bidding of the WTS.

Sometimes I look out in to the audience at the blank faces and I just want to cry. I want to say, "I have doubts. Maybe you do too. It's OK. God isn't going to destroy us for it. Let's start talking about this stuff together."

If that could happen, things would certainly be much better. That's really a shame, isn't it?

45

Seeker4 Here - Anyone on Who Remembers Me From H20 & JWD?

by Seeker4 in

jw
friends

seeker4 - robert smith from vermont.

former jw, elder, pioneer, etc.

i've got a few thousand posts on these sites, but haven't posted for a year or two.

Doubting Bro

Seeker4,

Very glad to see you posting here again. I recall that a thread started by you was the first thread I ever posted to. Your responses on that thread and others really helped me in recognizing what I already knew, that the WTS is seriously jacked up.

Glad to hear life is treating you well!!

74

CO's putting the screws on elder bodies, and ministerial servants to auxilliary pioneer this April.

by miseryloveselders in

jw
friends

i have such a love/hate, 50/50 relationship with this organization any more, but a letter was read to the elders and ministerial servants that has pushed me to the 30/70 range in favor of hate, if even momentarily.

most of you if not all are aware of the auxilliary pioneering initiative for this upcoming april.

it's no secret that i'm not real fond of pioneering as its unscriptural for one thing.

Doubting Bro

Doesn't sound very subtle!! The other week, the COBOE mentioned during the announcements (a MS was doing most of them but he handled this one individually) that they would like everyone to turn in their slip ASAP and mentioned how he's gotten "almost all" of the servant body's slips already.

LOL - I think its great (sorry buddy). Guys that were already reeling from the KMS will find the additional pressure even tougher to deal with.

11

Would the Watchtower ever dare to discourage having children again?

by nicolaou in

what they've said in the past;.

"...mark the words of jesus, which definitely seem to discourage the bearing of children immediately before or during armageddon: "and woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days" - matt.

24:19... it would therefore appear that there is no reasonable or scriptural injunction to bring children into the world immediately before armageddon, where we now are.

Doubting Bro

They don't like kids anyway. There is no youth programs, kids are expected to act like adults at the meetings (conventions are especially difficult) and the WTS overall treats them with distain. No wonder so many leave!

And how does the WTS respond? Blame the parents for doing a bad job raising their kids!!!

84

Being honest with yourself, could you have reasonably adjusted your attitude and continued on as a JW?

by miseryloveselders in

jw
friends

i ask this question in harmony with deedub's swan song thread which i linked below.. http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/members/private/205902/1/time-to-say-good-bye.

to some degree, i think i understand where she's coming from.

just speaking from my own experiences since stepping into the world of anonymous apostacy, i went through a few different phases of personal outlooks.

Doubting Bro

MLE,

I was thinking about this post while sitting through a meeting last night. I like many of the people there and have known most for a pretty long time. So, they aren't the problem. But, everytime I'm at the meetings I just get more and more annoyed. Sometimes, I can distract myself but some of the comments last night were so over the top I found myself in a terrible, angry mood by the time we left. It took a few beers before my mood improved.

I guess I continue being a JW on the surface, but I can't believe in their theology any more than I can believe in the Tooth Fairy. Nothing short of God's voice would convince me that they are "the earthly portion of Jehovah's organization". Yet, that is the premise of the entire religion. Without Jesus choosing them in 1919, there is no authority. And if they presented themselves as just another religion, didn't micromange their members, didn't split apart families and friends, then I wouldn't care. But, there's really no moderate position, is there? You're either for us or your against us. Maybe if the WTS could reasonably adjust their attitude towards those that disagree with them, they'd be able to retain more members.

If I didn't think it would create huge problems within my immediate family, I would never go back. However I'm pretty certain that it would destroy my marriage and cause more pain than its worth. And the more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that the DF'ing/DA'ing policy is a deliberate ploy to make it difficult for people to leave. If they're so sure they have "the Truth" then why isn't debate or any dissent allowed? Why must they attempt to slander and hurt those that disagree? Why not just let them leave without sanction?

So, at least for me, there's no amount of attitude adjustment I could make that would actually make me happy to be affiliated with the WTS.

43

Called to be Free - Dissolution of the Worldwide Church of God

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

[the time links work on my website, not good here].

called to be free - dissolution of the worldwide church of god.

[note: this presentation is over an hour long and is very well done, but i have marked key time slots from the video so if you are in a hurry you can watch the key highlites.].

Doubting Bro

And this is why even if the majority of the GB were to believe that a major doctrine was incorrect, they would NOT change it. Say all of them came to the conclusion that the "last days" didn't really start in 1914. Does anyone here think for a minute that they would publish that information? Hell to the no they wouldn't.

And apologize?? LOL LOL LOL

Protecting the status quo is their #1 job right now. In my opinion, if they were to make changes surrounding 1) no paradise earth, 2) no immortal soul, 3) not all Christians go to heaven, 4) no Trinity, 5) no shunning on df'ing or 6) no prohibition on blood it would result in major schisms.

As long as they keep those things along with no holidays and some form of preaching, they can tweak pretty much anything else they want with minimal damage.

They are not "seekers of truth" but protecters of the status quo. Way too much to lose.

98

Discussion involving my Dad & other long timers - Mood is definately different

by Doubting Bro in

jw
friends

i've seen several posts relating to the mood among longtime jws here recently.

i thought i would add to that collection and recount a discussion i recently had with my dad and a small group of folks about his age.

quick background on the group:.

Doubting Bro

Great comments all. Dozy, you make a very interesting point. There are a bunch of us here that have many family ties that either have been cut as a result of leaving or would be cut if we chose to do so. Many more than in the aftermath of 1975. In that sense, the WTS is counting on using those family ties to keep the numbers up.

However, growing up in the mid 70s/80s, I do recall some disagreements with the WTS official line but it was more on minor doctrinal points. Of course, I was just a kid so there may have been more malasie than I was able to perceive. But, I will say that in the 80s and even pre-1995, the atmosphere was more upbeat. Folks were still coming in from the field. Congregations were still growing and splitting. Divorce was shocking. DF'ings (in my area) were pretty uncommon. Worldwide reports showed big numbers and new branches.

Now, it's not uncommon to see congregations merged (something I didn't even know could happen 15 years ago). DF'ings are quite common (around here). Branches aren't expanding, they're closing. The numbers from even 3rd world countries are not very good and in 1st world countries they are flat to very modest.

The other thing I noticed is that this particular group is exhausted from living the majority of their life as hard charging JWs. I think deep down, they realize that something is seriously wrong.

I seriously doubt that any of them would ever leave or even fade. They will continue to press on and hope that it's all worth it.